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[personal profile] petitecuriosity
Which House villian did you dislike more?

Personally, I disliked Tritter more. Vogler was a tyrant, yes, but...Tritter was slimier, somehow. IMO, a donor wanting more control over hospital happenings and staff is more forgiveable than someone who is supposed to uphold laws and ensure they are being followed but instead exploits them for his own gain.

That being said, I think that Vogler had less of an arguable reason to try to get House fired than Tritter did. I think there were similarities in the power plays. Vogler wanted House to listen to his authority, and if House wouldn't, he was out. Tritter's actions...seemed more personal somehow. I mean, I think any sort of anger after what House did to Tritter is justifiable, but I don't believe Tritter's actions really fit what House did to him.

Vogler forced Wilson to resign, but Tritter....he destroyed Wilson's practice from the inside out, it seemed to hurt Wilson a lot more.

Both Tritter and Volger, however, tried to force House's colleagues to turn against him. (That's actually textbook behavior for some adolescent females, but that's beside the point.)

It was rather difficult to see Tritter's motivation beyond revenge. And Vogler's motivation beyond power.

(These are all merely my opinions by the way, and I do not think House was 100% innocent in either case.)

What do you think?

Date: 2013-06-30 05:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cuddyclothes.livejournal.com
To me, Vogler was a cardboard character that they wrote in to provide a conflict in the season. Wilson stood up for House, but the whole thing...you know House won't get fired.

Tritter, on the other hand, had a personal vendetta (you know someone in his life was a drug addict). Although a lot of what he did on the show would have never happened in real life (taking over an empty office, looking through records without a warrant, not having a supervising officer), it happened on the show. What House was put through, between Tritter being an evil sonavabitch and House's own refusal to be reasonable, was awful. I was so glad when House yelled, "You sonavabitch!" I also LOVED the scene when Cuddy explodes at House when he's in jail.

Also, I've never know if House's apology to Wilson was sincere.

Date: 2013-07-01 05:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] petitecuriosity.livejournal.com
Tritter, on the other hand, had a personal vendetta (you know someone in his life was a drug addict).

What House was put through, between Tritter being an evil sonavabitch and House's own refusal to be reasonable, was awful.

Oh I definitely agree with you here. There is a part of me that wants to read fic about whomever Tritter knew was a drug addict. My guess would be a sibling.

I also enjoyed Cuddy's explosion at House. She was badass in that scene.

I wasn't sure whether House's apology to Wilson was sincere or not either. Well, at the time I thought it was, due to the reluctance in House's delivery that didn't seem to be put on, and, as Wilson said, it wasn't necessary to House's plan. Why do you think it might not have been sincere? Perhaps so that Wilson would be so caught off guard that he wouldn't suspect what House was up to with "Voldemort"?

Date: 2013-06-30 06:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] violettblack.livejournal.com
Tritter, because of the reasons you already mentioned.

Date: 2013-07-01 05:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] petitecuriosity.livejournal.com
He truly is slimy, isn't he?

Date: 2013-06-30 08:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lieueitak.livejournal.com
I don't particularly dislike either, as much as I dislike the effect they had on House's colleagues' behavior. Wilson and Cuddy were pretty unbearable during the Tritter arc IMO. However, if I had to pick one character I disliked more, it would be Vogler who seemed to want obedience for its own sake and not because it would benefit the hospital in any way.

Also, I can't really fault Tritter for his reaction to House. There's nothing wrong with asking a doctor to perform tests to alleviate your own fears/suspicions, especially since he was asking to be tested for STDs. It's not like he wanted a brain biopsy or something outlandish. On the other hand, inserting a thermometer into someone's anus for humiliation and for no medical purpose and then leaving that person stuck in that position is extremely wrong. Even if you ignore the danger of leaving the thermometer in there, you are left with House sexually abusing a patient. So a lot of Tritter's anger and willingness to destroy anything to get to House seems understandable to me... although the storyline was so completely based in unbelievable fantasy that no one's actions were really understandable. So while the arc has a lot of problems, I could understand that character's anger. Vogler's motivation was harder to sympathize with. IA with [livejournal.com profile] cuddyclothes. Vogler was more of a cardboard character than anything else. Brilliantly acted but still cardboard.

Date: 2013-07-01 05:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] petitecuriosity.livejournal.com
Thank you for your interesting insights!

I can understand what you mean with regard to Tritter's motivations being more understandable than Vogler's. I do think that Vogler's was more power driven, obedience for its own sake, as you say, whereas Tritter's seemed more to be based in revenge for House's cruel actions.

Date: 2013-06-30 10:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hughville.livejournal.com
Vogler wanted to do something good to honor his father who had Alzheimer's Disease. The problem with Vogler was that he was a businessman and tried to run the hospital like a business and wanted to use patients in his drug trials. I thought Vogler and House were similar in that Vogler's dad gave him money for college. Vogler took the money and invested it in a company so he defied his father (didn't follow the rules) and became a huge success. House took great delight in breaking rules.

In Vogler's case, he couldn't get House to bend to his will and House defied him (the "speech", not wearing the lab coat, not behaving like a "real" doctor). House flaunted his drug use in both Vogler's and Tritter's faces.

I could understand Vogler's motivations because he thought he could make a difference with all his money and help the hospital. House just rubbed him the wrong way before Vogler even met him. I think he saw House as a slacker. (House was playing with his yo yo when Vogler first saw him.)

Tritter on the other hand was a bully. I got the impression someone close to him abused drugs and so he took out his anger and frustration on House and anyone associated with him who helped him. Wilson helped House the most so Tritter went after him. Of course, House did leave a thermometer up his ass for several hours (though how he got it past the stick already up there is beyond me). But Tritter TRIPPED a disabled man. House shouldn't have popped a Vicodin and been his usual House self but you don't trip someone who has difficulty walking. Tritter enjoyed hurting people. I also think he didn't like the fact that House was able to tell that Tritter was trying to quit smoking (an addiction) because he was chewing nicotine gum. Later he admitted he didn't want an apology from House. He wanted to humiliate House. The character was just very one dimensional.

For me, I looked forward to David Morse coming on for several episodes because he was SO fabulous on St. Elsewhere. But, damn, no matter how hard he tried, he could not make Tritter even the tiniest bit relatable or likeable. He even said in an interview that he tried to find something about the character to make him less of a villain and just couldn't.

I always fast forward over Tritter. I'll watch the Vogler arc but not the Tritter one. Okay, there is one part of the Tritter arc I don't FF over. When he arrested House and we got that view of sexy belly when House had to put his hands behind his head. When his shirt rode up.....YOWZA!! I watch that part A LOT. LOL!

Date: 2013-07-01 04:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chocolate-frapp.livejournal.com
Somewhat OT but I've been watching a miniseries about John Adams that has David Morse playing George Washington of all people.

Date: 2013-07-01 05:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] petitecuriosity.livejournal.com
Wow, after seeing him as Tritter, I find that to be a bit amusing. Is it a good miniseries?

Date: 2013-07-02 03:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chocolate-frapp.livejournal.com
yes, it is. The acting is excellent.

Date: 2013-07-01 05:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] petitecuriosity.livejournal.com
OMG I LOVE YOUR ICON!!!

The problem with Vogler was that he was a businessman and tried to run the hospital like a business and wanted to use patients in his drug trials. I thought Vogler and House were similar in that Vogler's dad gave him money for college. Vogler took the money and invested it in a company so he defied his father (didn't follow the rules) and became a huge success. House took great delight in breaking rules.

These are all very good points. I didn't really consider the fact that it might be more Vogler's type of professionalism that may have caused the ill fit. I can certainly agree that Vogler did want to make a difference and that he did view House as a slacker. Perhaps, due to the fact that Vogler wasn't wealthy before (which is the impression I got?), he was disgusted by what he viewed as House's laziness and ability to get away with things.

Tritter on the other hand was a bully. I got the impression someone close to him abused drugs and so he took out his anger and frustration on House and anyone associated with him who helped him. Wilson helped House the most so Tritter went after him.

I definitely agree with you here.

Of course, House did leave a thermometer up his ass for several hours (though how he got it past the stick already up there is beyond me).

LOL.

I do think that Tritter liked to hurt people, and that's what made me dislike the character.

When he arrested House and we got that view of sexy belly when House had to put his hands behind his head. When his shirt rode up.....YOWZA!! I watch that part A LOT. LOL!

YES. YES. YES TO INFINITY. That scene needs to be made into a gif, if it hasn't been already.

There was a comm. awhile back called [livejournal.com profile] house_tritter, which I think was largely sparked by that scene. I will admit though, that pairing is not my cup of tea.


Date: 2013-07-01 12:40 am (UTC)
ext_471285: (Default)
From: [identity profile] flywoman.livejournal.com
I thought that Tritter was actually more sympathetic than Vogler in many ways (but that's probably because I don't admire businessmen). He is the Javert of the House universe. He was trying to put someone away that he believed to be dangerous and became obsessed with that goal. He was, imo, JUST LIKE HOUSE in his willingness to do whatever it took to win (put away a criminal vs. save a patient).

Date: 2013-07-01 03:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cuddyclothes.livejournal.com
But-but-Vogler had such a weird-shaped head! He had the SKULL OF DOOM.

Date: 2013-07-01 11:29 am (UTC)
ext_471285: (Default)
From: [identity profile] flywoman.livejournal.com
LOL. Well, maybe that contributes to my dislike of him.

Date: 2013-07-01 05:48 pm (UTC)

Date: 2013-07-01 05:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] petitecuriosity.livejournal.com
He did have a rather oddly shaped head. If I had more photoshop talents, I would have fun with that one. ;)

Date: 2013-07-01 05:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] petitecuriosity.livejournal.com
Sorry for being ignorant here, but who is Javert?

And that is a good point. I do think he believed House was dangerous and he did become consumed by that goal. I do think he thought he was fighting for some sort of justice in his goal, and did have a determination similar to House.

You know, now I'm curious if when Tritter was younger, if he wasn't the sort that was often pushed around by people who were bigger/stronger than him, and developed some of his personality traits as a result of that?

Date: 2013-07-01 09:56 pm (UTC)
ext_471285: (Default)
From: [identity profile] flywoman.livejournal.com
Javert is the dude in Les Miserables who is determined to recapture a man who was sent to prison decades ago for stealing a loaf of bread.

Anyway, yes, as you say, I think that Tritter believed he was doing the right thing in going after a drug-addicted doctor (one who had, in fact, broken the law) who had treated him badly and could well pose a danger to his patients.

Date: 2013-07-01 03:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] menolly-au.livejournal.com
I dislike Vogler more because what he did was totally unprovoked. He basically took a dislike to House because he saw him playing with a yo-yo and then did everything he could to exercise power over him - including making him fire a staff member for no other reason than to show him who was boss. He also made some fairly slimy comments to Cuddy - that she was keeping House employed because she slept with him. He was just an outright bully who put on a genial face.

Tritter is a bit more complicated, he was provoked and was treated terribly by House. He saw an actual problem (whether he was right or not) and House did commit a crime (forging prescriptions). On the other hand he did appear to abuse his authority a lot which is a pretty serious thing in a policeman, and showed that he wasn't so much interested in getting House to get off the drugs as to humiliate and break him when he withdrew the perfectly reasonable deal Wilson had brokered.

So yeah - they're both pretty creepy :)

Date: 2013-07-01 05:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] petitecuriosity.livejournal.com
Oooh. I like your descriptions of them very much! I totally agree.

Date: 2013-07-01 04:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] chocolate-frapp.livejournal.com
i think Tritter was far worse. He was nothing more or less than a bully, (I get the feeling he pulled that sort of thing all the time) whereas Vogler was annoying but he had decent intentions, he just made two big mistakes, A) he tried to run a hospital as if it were a corporation, and B) he struck all the wrong sparks off of House.

Date: 2013-07-01 05:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] petitecuriosity.livejournal.com
These are very good points. I do think that Tritter was definitely a bully, probably acted that way all the time, but people never said anything out of being afraid of him.

And I certainly agree with the mistakes Vogler made, although I do think he was well-intended, as you said.

Date: 2013-07-02 04:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] blackmare.livejournal.com
Tritter assaulted House physically before House dished physical abuse right back at him. I mean, I know House was being a jerk and that's why Tritter kicked his cane out from under him, but no. Not an acceptable response.

I see Tritter as more damaged and less entitled than Vogler, and as attacking in a much more personal way and doing a lot more damage, both to House and to his friends, especially Wilson. So on a visceral level I dislike him a lot more; hating Vogler feels like hating a system, a corporation -- like hating Wal-Mart.

My headcanon is that Tritter's dad was a raging alcoholic who used to beat the hell out him as a kid. And Tritter thinks he's so much better than his dad was, and you know, he's not wrong. But he's still utterly damaged by all that brutality, so his notion of what's normal and what's just is very, very screwed up. And he never could get back at his dad, so he looks to obtain that justice elsewhere, by taking vengeance on guys like House.

Date: 2013-07-02 08:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] petitecuriosity.livejournal.com
You're right, Tritter did assault House first. That is a very good point. I do agree that kicking House's cane out from under him was not an acceptable response to anger.

I see Tritter as more damaged and less entitled than Vogler, and as attacking in a much more personal way and doing a lot more damage, both to House and to his friends, especially Wilson. So on a visceral level I dislike him a lot more; hating Vogler feels like hating a system, a corporation -- like hating Wal-Mart.

I definitely agree with you here.

And I rather like your headcanon for Tritter.
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